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  1. tibcsi0407 Eclair Dec 7, 2017

    tibcsi0407, Dec 7, 2017 :
    You must be kidding. Huawei already done it a year ago.

  2. rarog Lollipop Senior Moderator Dec 7, 2017

    rarog, Dec 7, 2017 :
    Huawei didn't support Treble a year ago. Seemingly they used a vendor partition, which wasn't mandatory by Google. Through the luck of having this and working closely with Google it seems they were able to repurpose the partition for Treble needs. Also AFAIK the Treble ROM isn't officially out yet, it's only a leaked internal beta.

  3. tibcsi0407 Eclair Dec 7, 2017

    tibcsi0407, Dec 7, 2017 :
    They have a working Treble ROM, XDA already booted few images on that. Honor 8 Pro and Honor 9 will also support treble. Both started with Nougat.
    They were prepared enough to do that.Same as Essential and few Sony devices, Pixel phones.

  4. rarog Lollipop Senior Moderator Dec 7, 2017

    rarog, Dec 7, 2017 :
    They didn't prepare for Treble a year ago. They probably didn't know how Treble would have been implemented. XDA people managed to boot AOSP on it using the leaked Oreo build. They needed some tries for it. Yes, they were able to do this more easy as they didn't have to rely on not published source code. But this is it. It's the advantage for ROM development.
    Are you a ROM developer? What advantage would you have personally, if OnePlus would have implemented Treble?

  5. tibcsi0407 Eclair Dec 7, 2017

    tibcsi0407, Dec 7, 2017 :
    I worked on modding (translate and adding Hungarian locale) to ZUK ZUI and LeECo EUI in the past, but now I am too busy to do it, that's why I bought the Oneplus.
    What I want? I want more security updates OOS, which would be easier with Treble. If Oneplus would not do that I would be able to use better custom ROM's. Now those are not that good when it comes to the photo quality, or stability.

  6. rarog Lollipop Senior Moderator Dec 7, 2017

    rarog, Dec 7, 2017 :
    The simple presence or absence of Treble doesn't change anything in terms of speed of security updates. It just speeds up the integration of major version jumps.
    In terms of camera - the custom ROMs should be able to access it the same way other ROMs or OOS do. The hardware abstraction is still the same, the postprocessing is done in software and is proprietary. Custom ROMs can't profit from it. Instability of custom ROMs usually comes from less quality control and the daily build philosophy. As the same drivers are used as OOS is using Treble also doesn't contribute or or diminish the stability. And I say it again, it would just be easier to port new major version of Android, it wouldn't help the ROM stability.

    Treble helps porting major Android versions by providing a stable ABI to the kernel. Thus any ROM developer (official like OOS or custom ROMs) doesn't have to wait for vendors to provide new drivers compatible to all the kernel changes that come with new major Android version. The drivers can stay the same and don't have to be recompiled for every kernel. Though this statement is probably only valid to things supported by AOSP. Any other hardware feature that is not part of AOSP (like VHF radio) would probably still have to be ported to every new kernel and not be part of Treble.

    Conclusion: Treble doesn't contribute to ROM stability or security in any way. It only accelerates possible adoption of new major Android versions. Nothing more.

  7. tibcsi0407 Eclair Dec 7, 2017

    tibcsi0407, Dec 7, 2017 :
    The faster developement is the faster updates. Including security patches. Oneplus is very bad in this unfortunately.

  8. rarog Lollipop Senior Moderator Dec 7, 2017

    rarog, Dec 7, 2017 :
    Security patches are completely independent of major Android versions. Google provides patches even for 4.x branches. So even old devices with KitKat could still have current security if the manufacturers would push updates.
    Yes, IMHO OnePlus is still far from optimal in that matter, but again Treble is not helping security as some stable ROM version could be kept since years with stable code and features + security fixes. And yes, this is what I wish for devices past official EOL.
    Custom ROMs integrate provided Google patches also immediately even without Treble. And they have to be recompiled anyway, so Treble doesn't give any advantage here.

  9. tibcsi0407 Eclair Dec 7, 2017

    tibcsi0407, Dec 7, 2017 :
    Huawei again:

    Let me quote:
    As for security updates — arguably more important than Android platform upgrades — Dr. Wang says Huawei will target monthly security patches for its new flagship phones, assisted by Project Treble.

    And this one:

    Mobile security experts point to the introduction of Project Treble in O as a major security milestone for Google.

    Please don't try to explain that they are wrong. :) Security is a must have in 2017 and will be more important in the future.
    I am an engineer and I have many sensitive information on my phone. Daily mails, drawings in pdf, etc.

    netllocke likes this.
  10. rarog Lollipop Senior Moderator Dec 7, 2017

    rarog, Dec 7, 2017 :
    The only way there is anything raise in terms of security with Treble is just that in case the security hole is in the driver - it would be possible to replace the driver without recompiling the kernel. BUT, and here is the big but, the driver update still has to be provided. And as of now it still has to be provided by the vendor to the phone manufacturer and he has to roll the update out. Which is the same way it's done today.
    While it would be theoretically possible to roll out updates for Treble partition via Google Play Store updates, Google didn't introduce such concepts yet. So again - Treble might help here in some uncertain future, but having it now still doesn't accelerate the security updates. And the rest of the statement is just marketing as monthly security patches are completely independent from Treble concept.

    Just to quote the 2nd link:
    It's part of LONG TERM strategy. It's still not there. There is no working concept that would allow replacing drivers in the Treble partition. This would most probably require a working major Android update jump to be supported. The work is great for security long term-wise. But so fare nobody can say when it will actually start being productive and beneficial to the end-users.

  11. tibcsi0407 Eclair Dec 7, 2017

    tibcsi0407, Dec 7, 2017 :
    Yes, it is a long term, which means OP 5 will be outdated sooner than it would with Treble.

  12. rarog Lollipop Senior Moderator Dec 7, 2017

    rarog, Dec 7, 2017 :
    Utter nonsense. OPO is also dead (not manufactured since 2.5 years, last official update from August 11th of 2016) but you can find daily builds of stable LineageOS for it with current security patches and without any trace of Treble. OP5 will still receive security updates the same way OPO does now, via custom ROMs and without Treble.

  13. tibcsi0407 Eclair Dec 7, 2017

    tibcsi0407, Dec 7, 2017 :
    That's not for the mainstream.

  14. rarog Lollipop Senior Moderator Dec 7, 2017

    rarog, Dec 7, 2017 :
    What is the mainstream? Those who use official updates? Just the presence of Treble still doesn't give you any official updates. In a year you'll find ton of cheap Oreo phones not getting any updates.
    The will to give updates must be there - independent of the fact of presence or absence of Treble in the system. So the mainstream user will still not see more security if you look at all the phones out there.
    OnePlus will update their phones as long as they will do it. And Treble doesn't make any difference there.

  15. helderfp Honeycomb Dec 7, 2017

    helderfp, Dec 7, 2017 :
    If treble does not make any difference for oneplus it makes a diference to custom developers, it will make their life easy to port the upgrades even if oneplus does not want to do it.
    So oneplus does not release treble for current suported phones because they want to current phones be with outdated software, and people buy their new phones they will release. It is all a strategy to make money in the near future.
    so we can say the logo "Never Settle" can be changed to "Oneplus Never Settle to Make Money" or "Never give the coustomer what they want, let us make money"

  16. netllocke Honeycomb Dec 7, 2017

    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017

  17. rarog Lollipop Senior Moderator Dec 7, 2017

    rarog, Dec 7, 2017 :
    Yes, easier, but still the custom ROM development was very fast. Oreo was released on August 21st. On September 7th there was first experimental custom ROM making Oreo runnable on OP5 meaning it took only 17 days - with no public kernel source, with no Treble needed. And it was 79 days before OnePlus published the first open beta for OP5.

    You are continue ranting but failed to provide any true argument on why missing Treble in case of OnePlus phones is something really bad. And your "outdated" argument is also flawed. If they wanted to support the phones for next 5 years they could easily do it, even without Treble. Stop trying to sell a cat as a dog, you are deliberately mixing up things. Specially for you I tried to explain what Treble actually is and how it actually works. You just don't want to get it because you'd have to give up your position you are clutching at. I'll stop trying reasoning with you as it's lost cause, you are angry and are searching for arguments that might fit your narrative.

  18. netllocke Honeycomb Dec 7, 2017

    netllocke, Dec 7, 2017 :
    It's cool to be shout-out about our phone's hot hardware but in the real world where we're keep all our most important data/stuffs in our phone we want to have a secured OS with the lastest security update patch ASAP NOT two or three months behind.
    Oneplus's theme at the 55T launch boosted that the company truly is listening to her fans but is kind of news truly what her fans want ?
    Combed the Oneplus forums and security updates must be one of most the priority update requested. With the Treble it's give our phones the edges for timely updates period !!!

  19. rarog Lollipop Senior Moderator Dec 7, 2017

    rarog, Dec 7, 2017 :
    100% agree here.
    No, this is completely wrong Treble doesn't make security updates faster nor does it make those easier to roll out.

    Treble is about easier upgrading major Android milestones and not about security. Read about Treble, what it's for and how it works here: https://source.android.com/devices/architecture/treble
    Security updates are provided even for older android versions and don't require upgrade to latest Android milestone. Just look through the security bulletins here: https://source.android.com/security/bulletin/

  20. netllocke Honeycomb Dec 7, 2017

    netllocke, Dec 7, 2017 :
    I believe with Treble framework it's will enable OnePlus to deliver any patch (OS & security updates) to our phone at the soonest.