186
Let's Talk About OxygenOS Analytics

  1. macemoneta
    Honeycomb Oct 13, 2017

    macemoneta , Oct 13, 2017 :
    I can assure you that hundreds of companies have your data on Amazon servers. That's a service that Amazon provides. You should be happy about that; Amazon does a much better job of data security than most independent companies that data mine without your knowledge or agreement, like Equifax. Equifax leaked not only your phone number - which you never gave them, but every phone number you ever had, every address you ever lived at, your salary history, every loan and credit card, and much, much more. If Equifax had used Amazon, your data would probably still be secure.
     

  2. SoniaB
    Nougat Senior Moderator Oct 13, 2017

    SoniaB , Oct 13, 2017 :
    I am not suggesting anything.
    1. No one knows entirely what was being collected and not. So since telephone numbers, IMEI and MAC addresses has happened what's to say APN settings and GPS info has not been collected also? Point is no one knows the true extent of what has been collected and stored. So you are defending
    2. "That would have been truly invasive tracking." Yes about as invasive as storing telephone numbers, IMEI and MacAddress without consent.:rolleyes:

    Look, I am glad Carl has made a statement on this, but there are always going to be questions and further concerns that need to be addressed as per my post reply to him. There is nothing wrong posting those questions/concerns.

    What you have to appreciate is that not everyone will think, or act or react like you. That does not mean what they are saying is wrong and you are right ;)
     

    rva, danellisuk, remedy and 4 others like this.
  3. jlasensiofi
    KitKat Oct 13, 2017

    jlasensiofi , Oct 13, 2017 :
    Thank you very much for the interest and the clarifications that are very welcome.
    #NeverSettle
     

  4. NeVeR_SeTTLe
    The Lab - OnePlus 6 Reviewer Oct 13, 2017

    NeVeR_SeTTLe , Oct 13, 2017 :
    Seems like a never ending story.
     

  5. meatandy
    Oreo Oct 13, 2017

    meatandy , Oct 13, 2017 :
    Two questions , How did Oneplus get your address to ship you that Osmo gimbal? :rolleyes: and did you receive it yet?
     

    Dunnow, thechadd, Mr. BG and 3 others like this.
  6. apurva_kumar
    Donut Oct 13, 2017

    apurva_kumar , Oct 13, 2017 :
    I totally agree with you, what may be the reason and what may be the justification given, it's not ethical and neither right. I may happily give my house address or for that matter my DOB, but only "IF I KNOW WHERE I AM GIVING AND WHAT CAN BE IT'S POTENTIAL USE" apart from that it's called stealing. The companies policy has already been a big let down, and with this the so called TRUST factor has plummeted.
     

    rva and danellisuk like this.
  7. macemoneta
    Honeycomb Oct 13, 2017

    macemoneta , Oct 13, 2017 :
    Yes, that works both ways. As you said you don't know. So why react so vehemently before you have information?
     

  8. meatandy
    Oreo Oct 13, 2017

    meatandy , Oct 13, 2017 :
    Where's the uncle in California driving the 'legal bus' around? :p
     

    Rick Manders and sfomin like this.
  9. apurva_kumar
    Donut Oct 13, 2017

    apurva_kumar , Oct 13, 2017 :
    So that they would fix your internet connection in case they weren't able to reach you via remote assistant ;)
     

  10. macemoneta
    Honeycomb Oct 13, 2017

    macemoneta , Oct 13, 2017 :
    That's not the way it works in most countries. The data is legally owned by the company that collects it, not who the data is about. Using Equifax again as an example, it was Equifax data that was stolen (even though it contained the details of millions of people). The company may have a duty to keep that data secure, but as you've probably guessed, in most countries there's little or no penalty for failing to do so.
     

  11. SoniaB
    Nougat Senior Moderator Oct 13, 2017

    SoniaB , Oct 13, 2017 :
    This was my post:

    There is nothing vehement about it. It's a clear and concise response to Carl's post. Perhaps you confused with someone else. Or maybe you can point out specifically my "vehemence".
    Trust me, the only thing I show any kind of vehement behaviour towards is good wine ... when it's on sale at market :p

    Edit - my post really was a summary of what others have written.
    If anything, one could argue that the one showing true vehemence, is you.
     

    rva, agoinfly, remedy and 5 others like this.
  12. NeVeR_SeTTLe
    The Lab - OnePlus 6 Reviewer Oct 13, 2017

    NeVeR_SeTTLe , Oct 13, 2017 :
    Because @SoniaB cares about what is happening with our information being collected. Thank God, she acted so passionately about this and not the other way around, like you. We, the users, care about our privacy. Concerns we have, we raise. Period.
     

    rva, remedy, Android450 and 1 other person like this.
  13. sfomin
    Nougat Oct 13, 2017

    sfomin , Oct 13, 2017 :
    @SoniaB how can we get a hold of that lawyer uncle guy [​IMG]
     

    meatandy and DrAakash like this.
  14. DrAakash
    Jelly Bean Oct 13, 2017

    DrAakash , Oct 13, 2017 :
    This is just an attempt at damage control isn't it? I wonder if you'd still have made a statement if it wasn't for the forum. Anyway pretty much every company does this.. the discussions just get buried under the many threads on reddit and such.
    Not really concerned about it being a custom rom user.. but i can surely see it damaging the reputation among the geeky community that you patronize.
     

    rva, otto2, meatandy and 2 others like this.
  15. waldwolf
    Ice Cream Sandwich Oct 13, 2017

    waldwolf , Oct 13, 2017 :
    Yes, I'm (unfortunately) very familiar with the Equifax situation, as it's been confirmed to me by Equifax, my information was among that stolen. :mad:

    I'm also knowledgeable about Amazon's as-well-as IBM, Google and Microsoft's commercial storage divisions and operations, and also, to a lessor extent, their security systems and provisions.

    Your comments re: Amazon vs Equifax security (and probably the other two major credit agencies included) are, sadly, very true.
     

    sfomin and macemoneta like this.
  16. johnhart
    Ice Cream Sandwich Oct 13, 2017

    johnhart , Oct 13, 2017 :
    @Carl

    Please understand that because of this situation my response will be as understanding as regrettably harsh. I believe corporate arrogance warrants this. I'm a linguist by trade so, yeah, I'm going to pick this apart. Your words are italics.

    Friends

    Now see, right there, off to a bad start. If my condo neighbor was routinely stealing my wifi without my knowledge and gumming up my network, and I caught him doing so, I wouldn't be so sure we were friends any longer. And I know I wouldn't like his explanation starting with, "Listen, we're friends, right?"

    We take our users - and their data privacy - very seriously.

    Again, poor word choice. Lots of us will see the phrase that resides within that sentence: we take our users data. Also: if this is a very serious matter why is this response hidden in the forums but not featured as one of the big six stories on the community page?

    While data collection is a standard industry practice

    Is it true that taking telephone numbers, MAC Addresses and WiFi information is a standard industry practice?

    OnePlus devices using OxygenOS securely transmit analytics in two different streams, usage analytics and device information.

    This ain't a knock at you or OnePlus. But there's really no such thing as secure anymore. T-Mobile was just hit. So was Disqus. Yahoo was ganged raped a while ago.

    The reason we collect usage analytics through the user experience program is so we can better understand general phone behavior and optimize OxygenOS for a better overall user experience. At any time, users can opt-out of usage analytics collection by navigating to 'Settings' -> 'Advanced' -> 'Join user experience program'.

    For the record and fairness this switch was already off on my OP3. I do not recall ever reading it should be turned off or turning it off and so I believe it shipped this way. And I appreciate that.

    The reason we collect some device information is to better provide after-sales support. If you opt out of the user experience program, your usage analytics will not be tied to your device information. We'd like to emphasize that at no point have we shared this information with outside parties.

    Yeah, I caught that. I would like to see you edit this to read: We'd like to emphasize that at no point have we shared or sold any information we've collected with any parties outside of OnePlus.

    If that's what you meant to say, say it. If not -- explain what you're actually saying.

    By the end of October, all OnePlus phones running OxygenOS will have a prompt in the setup wizard that asks users if they want to join our user experience program. The setup wizard will clearly indicate that the program collects usage analytics.


    The choices should be YES, NO, and DECIDE LATER. And every type of analytic should be defined. If you ever add an analytic -- the sharing turns off and asks for new approval. Perhaps it automatically turns off at each major update.

    In addition, we will include a terms of service agreement that further explains our analytics collection.

    Nobody reads this stuff. Which makes users nervous. What I just explained above is better. Of course for legal reasons you need to put it in writing somewhere.

    We would also like to share we will no longer be collecting telephone numbers, MAC Addresses and WiFi information.

    Go a BIG step further. State that absolutely no information of any kind will be collected that isn't specified in the user experience program.

    ********************************************

    Some thoughts --

    1. I felt this response took a little too long to arrive. Now I'm not saying you should have rushed it. But perhaps a post asking for a little time to get this response right was warranted. It appeared you didn't give a damn for two full days.

    2. I've said it before and I'll say it again: you've got to lose this #NeverSettle crap. Because -- yet again -- what are you asking your users to do at this moment? Settle. For crappy behavior. You're right: I should never settle for this kind of bullshit. No one should.

    3. I've had a OnePlus phone for about a year now. My first Android. I wouldn't use an iPhone if you gave me one for free. Thank you for my most excellent first experience.

    I intend to upgrade my phone a year from now. I must say a OnePlus 6 (or 6T, or whatever will be new at that point) isn't as attractive as it used to be.

    Your company has this shenanigans thing that has to stop. That with guaranteed price hikes is a really lethal combination. I've said it before and I'll say it again: OnePlus needs two tiers of phones. The $399 and the $Pricier99. A solid phone and a status phone. Bases covered.

    The only way I can recommend iPhone and Samsung users your way is 1.) an affordable entry level or 2.) an amazingly valued flagship and 3.) the knowledge that the company doesn't fornicate with users. You're currently only meeting one of these three criteria.

    Which makes it a tough sell right now. To them and now me.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017

  17. sfomin
    Nougat Oct 13, 2017

    sfomin , Oct 13, 2017 :
    i think you and @theshinybeast should have a language battle [​IMG]
     

    otto2, thechadd, meatandy and 2 others like this.
  18. waldwolf
    Ice Cream Sandwich Oct 13, 2017

    waldwolf , Oct 13, 2017 :
    IMO, this thread was opened, not because of the member posts in the OnePlus forum, but rather The Verge and other online news organizations who picked up the story from the original source, and ran with it. Those news pieces are read by millions, and picked up by daily newspapers and other online news media. That will likely effect OnePlus's image and sales, well into the future.

    (Most news organizations love to whip and chastise powerful people and organizations who screw-up.):eek:

    .
     

    rva, Radeon962, Rick Manders and 4 others like this.
  19. Mr. BG
    Marshmallow Oct 13, 2017

    Mr. BG , Oct 13, 2017 :
    Look, you seem like someone who knows what he's talking about, so I'm carefully reading what you are writing, it's interesting.

    What bugs me is the slightly smug, condescending undertone it seems to contain, so please correct me if I'm wrong, or stop it.

    Thank you.

    Edit: damn you spellchecker...
     

    rva, meatandy and sfomin like this.
  20. macemoneta
    Honeycomb Oct 13, 2017

    macemoneta , Oct 13, 2017 :
    The intent isn't to be condescending. If anything you may be reading my confusion / amazement that so many people don't understand how their data moves and flows these days. It's like seeing someone with a finger in a hole in the dam yelling about water leakage, when the spillways are open.
     

    otto2, meatandy, Bobbie63 and 2 others like this.