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OP3 screen is bad.

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  1. malidan
    Nougat Jun 19, 2016

    malidan , Jun 19, 2016 :
    Samsung use all the best for themselves everybody knows this. So why i are trying to imply that the best screens on the market( in Samsung devices ) are not as good as the one in the OP3:rolleyes:
     

    #21
  2. hasenbein1966
    Froyo Jun 19, 2016

    hasenbein1966 , Jun 19, 2016 :
    I find the screen perfectly OK, but of course not outstanding (that would be fanboyism).
    For my taste, simple icons or one-color-areas (like title bars of apps etc.) have a bit too much that "candy" look which is typical for e.g. older Samsungs. A bit less saturation would be welcome.
     

    #22
  3. bloooow
    Froyo Jun 19, 2016

    bloooow , Jun 19, 2016 :
    But on the other hand on AMA OP said that they ate using "current gen" of display, which probably isnt true from the above results
     

    #23
  4. DarkExistence
    Ice Cream Sandwich Jun 19, 2016


    #24
  5. harlekinwashere
    Honeycomb Jun 19, 2016

    harlekinwashere , Jun 19, 2016 :
    Haha!

    Facts vs. the internet. Love it.

    I can measure my OP3 once I get it btw, so you can have a second opinion. :)

    Here is what the notebookcheck.net check shows in a few simple words.

    Brightness is very unevenly distributed across the screen. The difference between the left and the right side are 70cd/m2 which is about half the brightness you would watch a TV at in an average lit room. Thats actually a real big difference in values...

    Greyscale shows that the phone ramps up brightness for all colors far too quickly, from the 50% point onwards - so all colors above 50% brightness appear too bright, too quickly, and it ramps down brightness far too quickly from the 50% point downwards, so all darker colors get displayed darker than they should, earlier.

    You can look at a comparison on how the greyscale should look and how it looks on the phone in this picture (column in the middle):
    http://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_CalMAN_BalanceMax_Grayscale_sRGB_21903c0604.jpg

    Greyscale impacts all colors that are displayed on the phone, because it is used to "modulate their brightness".

    The phone the tester had also shows some screen bleeding on one side (the "brighter side"). There the whole phone has a distinct blue tint, as you can see in this measurement.
    http://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_CalMAN_Standard_Grayscale_sRGB_f453e020be.jpg

    The phone also is calibrated for Adobe RGB which is quite interesting and at the same time quite unusual. This means, that photos you look at on the device are being displayed in the much wider Adobe RGB color space - but to draw any benefit out of it the photos also must have been taken in Adobe RGB. I bet that the Oneplus 3 does that in its photo app, but all other graphics, including apps, webbrowsing and so on aren't displayed in the correct color space - in those cases, especially the color green is far to saturated.

    Interestingly enough, the Samsung S7 Edge (looked at that test as well) also uses Adobe RGB - but it has color profiles it can switch between and probably does so depending on the App it displays, the Oneplus 3 seems not to have implemented different color profiles - which is ok, but in those cases you'd usually go with the more commonly used one (sRGB) and the Oneplus 3 does not (it uses Adobe RGB).

    Also - regardless of the color standard used, color accuracy on the Oneplus 3 is actually pretty poor across the line - probably caused by the greyscale curve (darks ramping too fast towards black (no brightness), brighter colors ramp too fast towards white (max brightness - defined by your brighness slider :) )).
    -

    The "defective unit" argument might work to explain away the unevenness in screen brightness.

    It doesnt work to explain away the greyscale curve (gamma is all over the place) - this is actually caused by the "quality of screen" you buy from the manufacturer. The one tested by notebooktest is a pretty poor one. So the person that started the thread is actually right. ;)

    h.

    edit: Also the averaged max. brightness is 430 cd/m2 which is slightly below the max brightness of an Oppo Find 5 (three year old phone (same price category at launch -)). ;)

    But it is an Oled screen. Until quite recently this tech wasn't part of the "brightness race" thats currently ongoing. :)

    Oh, and yes - below 10% brightness there is low frequency flicker, which is visible to the plain eye. According to the test. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2016

    #25
  6. ayaorei
    Gingerbread Jun 19, 2016

    ayaorei , Jun 19, 2016 :
    i think i will have to read again..... :):):):)
     

    #26
  7. janguv
    Honeycomb Jun 19, 2016

    janguv , Jun 19, 2016 :
    Thanks for the informative write up! In your opinion, how many of these issues could be resolved with subsequent software implementations?
     

    #27
  8. Pytajnik
    Honeycomb Jun 19, 2016

    Pytajnik , Jun 19, 2016 :
    They can't fix brightness distribution on corners but it depends, maybe notebookcheck have just one with worse screen than most other OnePlus 3.
    They also can't fix greyscale and maximum brightness.
    Maybe, just maybe next production batch will get better displays from other manufacture?
    We don't know.
    From what I saw, there is problem like on old amoled screens in galaxy s3 etc. Gray color on lower brightness is just pinkish.
     

    #28
    janguv likes this.
  9. harlekinwashere
    Honeycomb Jun 19, 2016

    harlekinwashere , Jun 19, 2016 :
    None. :)

    (The greyscale issue most likely is baked in as mentioned (gamma curve), max brightness is a display property and screen uniformity usually can't be fixed in software either..)

    Well, apart from introducing different color profiles which would make "webstandard" colors a little more accurate (especially greens), but you'd actually want Adobe RGB for the camera app - because the phone is capable of producing "more colors" there.

    That said, the "trend" has recently switched as LCD manufacturers started to care less about color accuracy ("it looks the same on my device as it looks on yours") and more about "vivid colors".

    Using the Adobe RGB color space on normal "webstandard" images is about the equivalent of what Sony would sell you as "vivid colors" mode a few years ago (I'll see if I can still find a comparison I know exists in a certain place on the web.. ;) ). And people turn out to like "vivid colors" (actually: more saturated), if you show them a comparison and ask them to point at the better image.. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2016

    #29
    janguv likes this.
  10. harlekinwashere
    Honeycomb Jun 19, 2016

    harlekinwashere , Jun 19, 2016 :
    Found the images I was looking for. This should give you an idea how "looking at "webstandard" images with a device calibrated for the Adobe RGB standard" changes its colors.

    All other issues aside - because those shots were taken from a top of the line Sony LED TV a few years back. :) Also the Sony isn't exactly using a Adobe RGB profile, but one very close to it.

    http://imgur.com/cOBcICi
    (imgur has a nicer (dark) background - so I chose not to embed the picture here)

    On the left you always see the original image, in the middle you see the "image as seen with an Adobe RGB color profile, although the image displayed wasn't taken in Adobe RGB" and on the right you see a mathematical model of what colors changed. :)

    src is: http://www.cine4home.de/tests/TVs/Sony_W905/Test_Sony_W905.htm

    The comparison was taken at the start of the "vivid colors are better" craze, three years ago. :)
     

    #30
    janguv likes this.
  11. felinos11
    Honeycomb Jun 19, 2016

    felinos11 , Jun 19, 2016 :
    did you just say brightness is FAR BETTER than s7??? :D
     

    #31
  12. janguv
    Honeycomb Jun 19, 2016

    janguv , Jun 19, 2016 :
    Thanks! These are really useful for the layperson. I can see the issue. Does the manual gamma control in the display settings not help a little here?

    I can say this:

    If the OnePlus 3 display suffers in some or many respects, I am okay with it. I pick my battles. The display is my first AMOLED, and I'm ecstatic to finally not see blacks like on IPS displays! 1080p is still fine for me, and a vivid colours issue is something *for now* I almost like - just like those stupid people in comparison tests, I guess!

    The only issue that is genuinely of concern here is the flickering. I'm someone who had my screens as low-light as I can manage. I haven't consciously seen any flickering yet, but headaches because of my light preferences would be a pain in the arse!
     

    #32
    IvanMuse likes this.
  13. harlekinwashere
    Honeycomb Jun 19, 2016

    harlekinwashere , Jun 19, 2016 :
    After a second look at the comparison chart between phones -

    Greyscale on average (remember averages can be skewed by "break out" values ;) ) is better than on the Oneplus 2. Color accuracy (measured towards the Adobe RGB target) is only 6% worse than the Oneplus 2 (which still used the sRGB color space - btw). But about 60% worse than the Oneplus 2 for "webstandard" images (because there is no sRGB profile and you are viewing them in Adobe RGB as well).

    Now - 60% of what? deltaE which is by no means a linear scale - lets just say, that for Adobe RGB images you should notice colors being slightly off, while for sRGB images they are visibly off.

    Other manufactures provide color profiles to adjust for that (Samsung provides them, HTC provides them - Huawei does not), Oneplus so far hasn't either (again - this wasn't an "issue" on the Oneplus 2 where all images were displayed in the more common sRGB color space).

    Comparing different brands for "measured color accuracy" (notebookcheck always pick the best possible average across color space measurements - so for the Oneplus this is "measured in Adobe RGB") - the Galaxy S7 is very noticeably more accurate, the HTC10 is a little more accurate - and the iPhone 6S is "about as accurate as the Oneplus 3" *rofl*. The LG G5 is far less accurate then all of those btw.

    Now remember this is for pictures taken in the Adobe RGB color space only - as long as Oneplus doesnt also provide a sRGB profile color accuracy while browsing the web, or using apps is 60% worse (on a nonlinear scale - so lets just say "noticably").. ;)

    But the same goes for the Huawei P9 for instance.. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2016

    #33
    janguv likes this.
  14. jayd95
    Honeycomb Jun 19, 2016

    jayd95 , Jun 19, 2016 :
    all this complaining, everyone that has had the phone has said the display looks great, yes its not a galaxy s7 screen but its also less than half the price. If i had read any review of the phone that said there was an issue with the display it would put me off but i am so far impressed as long as there is no half yellow display like the oneplus one im happy
     

    #34
  15. harlekinwashere
    Honeycomb Jun 20, 2016

    harlekinwashere , Jun 20, 2016 :
    Actually - the more reasonable way to sum this up would be:

    - Oneplus picked a pretty poor OLED screen over what could have been a more accurate LCD panel at the same pricepoint.

    - Then they calibrated it wrong for 95% of usecases - but in doing so made the colors appear "more vivid".

    - Issues like a highly uneven brightness distribution (could be an issue with the device tested, we'll see), a greyscale (gamma) that is off in both directions and not providing a sRGB color profile - would all be considered unacceptable in the TV realm. Its also not a pricepoint issue - because most manufacturers simply don't release stuff like that.

    Compared to the Oppo Find 5 screen (again chinese manufacturer, same price class, released three years ago) - the Find 5 didn't experience any of those issues -- so the more accurate representation would be, that Oneplus paid a price for "wanting to go with that OLED screen Samsung provided them for what they were willing to pay".

    And then they decided to optimize for "vivid" and not for "accurate" colors.

    Now - deltaE numbers arent everything (because of a thing called observer metamerism failure.. ;) ) so I reserve judgement until I see one of those screens myself - but the stuff mentioned above -

    sporting a greyscale that ramps brightness too quickly in both directions, having screen uniformity issues on that scale - and Oneplus not caring to provide a correct color profile (one that even tries to target the right color space) for 95% of the content you will view on the device are serious issues;

    Serious on a scale were most TV reviewers would consider marking them down by two grades at least (5 point rating scale).

    One of them is resolvable, two of them are not (but lets exempt the uneven brightness distribution issue for now - because it could be an issue with the test sample).

    And it is not the pricepoint that has caused them.

    Also - people "liking the screen" is not the same as the screen being accurate by any measure.

    It is not - (deltaE of 5 is considered to be an obvious color difference even without a direct comparison to a reasonably calibrated source - and for 95% of usecases (webstandard (sRGB) images viewed on the Oneplus 3 in Adobe RGB color space) the Oneplus 3 exceeds a deltaE of 5 by quite a large margin almost across the entire color spectrum.

    Here is how the Oneplus 3 performs (without any graphs indicating as to "why", those would be the other ones you can look at in the article ;) ):

    [​IMG]

    Any greyscale value (those black and white bars at the bottom) above 3 is considered to be unacceptable for any calibrated device.

    Any color that shows a deltaE above 5 is considered "visibly off" even without direct 1:1 comparison.

    An average below 5 across those colors is considered to be "ok" color performance (but usually only if greyscale is below 3), an average above 5 is considered to be poor color performance.

    Any max deltaE error above lets say 7 is considered to be poor, a max deltaE of 17 is very poor.

    Some of this can be fixed if Oneplus would provide different color profiles (like other manufacturers do) - but they would have to care to do so. My money currently is on - that they dont. :)

    Also greyscale very likely isn't fixable at all.

    To show you that this is not a "price range issue" - the already mentioned Oppo Find 5 had max deltaEs of around 6 if I remember correctly - people considered it to have a great screen and it did. The Oneplus 3 doesnt (to call its performance "poor" is not even exaggerated).

    Now that said - it has a nice deep black, and probably very vivid colors. But thats the sales pitch of every third rate TV salesmen to sell you anything (except that black actually is quite nice on the Oneplus 3). :)

    Comparing average values only takes you that far - averages are mostly used as "gate values" to tell what class your screen fits into - and as described above, the screen on the Oneplus 3 doesnt reach the "good" threshhold very often.

    "But I like it" beats every one of those statements - but that is not how manufacturers price and sell their screens to vendors. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2016

    #35
    Lena_W3 and janguv like this.
  16. spooke
    Honeycomb Jun 20, 2016

    spooke , Jun 20, 2016 :
    Facts are great, but honestly, for 90% of users as long as it looks nice who cares? Do you really need the display to be that accurate?

    IMO the screen is one of the nicest I've used, it's leagues ahead of the OP2 which is really all that matters for us.
     

    #36
    ckkk likes this.
  17. G_Domenic_Schumann_HvnV
    Cupcake Jun 20, 2016

    G_Domenic_Schumann_HvnV , Jun 20, 2016 :
    I received my OP3 on friday and it has very unequal light emission. in the middle of the screen there is an approx. 1 centimeter thick line which is darker. it is only recognizable at dark colors like grey blue etc.
    Does anybody have the same issue with the screen?
     

    #37
  18. SimonFullerImagery
    Jelly Bean Jun 20, 2016

    SimonFullerImagery , Jun 20, 2016 :
    I'm not editing so who needs a phone display to be super accurate? Movies, tv shows and pictures simply look better no matter what charts and scales are thrown around. It's a f**king cheap phone not a Macbook Pro.
     

    #38
    ckkk and spooke like this.
  19. harlekinwashere
    Honeycomb Jun 20, 2016

    harlekinwashere , Jun 20, 2016 :
    I actually thought about opening a new thread for this, but since you asked - I'll write about it in here. Its gonna be a bit off topic but its all to illustrate a point.

    How do we test smartphones these days? For example 95% of youtube viewers seem to like this approach:

    - We test bootup time // when it is actually not that important, because most people hardly ever reboot their devices
    - We test app launch speeds, but not in aggregate, but one after the other // not looking at background processes, making sure even one stray app can effect the entire test, or even just a few apps we launch for the first time -- all while counting milliseconds to proclaim winners
    - We don't do this after each and every Android release to see how it changed (because it did), but we do it when we want to decide if we should buy a phone.
    - We use benchmark tools that give out values in the hundreds of thousands (what, dollars?) but are not giving out frame values or the churn time on compression algos which might mean something to the user
    - We "test" memory retention (how log apps get kept in memory), when the concept of android is, that they can be booted in and out of memory at any time - without loosing data.
    - We load several games into Ram - and then call it "a multitasking test" to see when one of them falls out.
    - We load 15 apps at a time, talking about "multitasking performance", when most people on Windows would never "multitask" with more than four.

    At the same time - we judge battery performance by "it gets you through they day" and color performance by "it looks good to me" (Now - stuff like observer color metamerism failure makes it hard to even compare measured colors right now - so measured color currently isnt the be all end all - but thats beside the point (and you have scientists working on that)).

    The point is - that seemingly everything about "judging a good phone" has become highly subjective, or lays in the realm of counting milliseconds - while playing three GTA titles at once - yet at the same time, we choose to sideline those issues entire industries are build upon (energy efficiency, battery capacity, screen production (quality classes)) - because...

    ... in those cases we'd rather go for a select number of subjective quotes (yeah, that white is great man (which is impossible to be tested just with one image source and the naked eye f.e.)) to help us decide if something works for us or not.

    And the only throughline I can see in all of this is, that marketing has successfully decoupled most of whas actually driving product development on the industry level from what customers are educated to "look at". At which point making sure you eliminate every microlag during the first startup of your device becomes a high priority effort for vendors like Oneplus -

    - and making sure to allow your users to use the correct color space for 95% of content on your device, or having built in a magnet sensor that delivers readings that arent faulty - becomes an afterthought - because most customers are just willing to excuse those as "technical details".

    Now - neither in the realm of science, nor in aiming for any actual progress any of this works. At all. For example - why are you selling people on Amoled - when the best OLED screen in your price range is performing worse than an equivalent LCD screen at the same cost? Probably in every aspect besides "blackness of black"? You do it, because you can write it on the packaging - and people associate OLED with "high quality" - because those more expensive devices use them.

    Now tell me - at which point does this start to bother you...? ;)

    edit: I forgot to mention that we put in 2GB more ram into our devices to get 20.000 more Antutu points, but then dont let them be accessed by default, to extend battery life (which isnt that bad of an idea actually). We look at images from different angles with different whitebalancing - generated in auto mode too - because according to youtubers those are telling us "how sharp", "mo detail", or "natural colors". ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2016

    #39
  20. spooke
    Honeycomb Jun 20, 2016

    spooke , Jun 20, 2016 :
    I really think you are reading far too much into this, do you even own the OnePlus 3? At the end of the day it's a £309 phone which out performs much more expensive models. As I mentioned before, most people only care that it is better than the OnePlus 2, which is is - you need to stop pushing all this technical insight.
     

    #40