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Who is OnePlus in the EU

  1. Bobbie63
    Marshmallow May 15, 2021

    Bobbie63 , May 15, 2021 :
    After reading this thread https://forums.oneplus.com/threads/portuguese-customers-warning.1427376/, I started to wonder who OnePlus is and who we are dealing with as it made me doubt the representation of OnePlus in different European countries.


    I asked myself, if I order a phone with OnePlus, who am I dealing with, who is OnePlus and where are they situated. @davidsaraiv who started the above mentioned thread found out his money was transferred to Hong Kong and he had to pay additional transaction cost that were involved due to the fact he made use of his credit card. Now, depending on the bank that issued the card you get charged or you don’t get charged additionally for transactions overseas but that’s not what this is about. What I mean, who would expect, if you purchase a phone from OnePlus, that you’re dealing with OnePlus in Hong Kong and not OnePlus somewhere in the EU?


    This all sounded a bit strange to my ears and being me….I wanted to know more on how this would, could, should or does work and I thought: what would I do if I bought a OnePlus phone from OnePlus through the website.


    Being a potential customer, already knowing what I want so that all figured out, I want to know who I am dealing with. The best starting point here is to check the Terms of Sales, as that document tells us all the rights and obligations for the seller and the buyer. So I checked the most obvious, the Terms and Sales of the Dutch region to see whom I dealing with. So what I found out is in the Netherlands, OnePlus is represented by (copied from the term of Sales and translated into English)


    1.3 References in these Terms of Sale to "we", "our", "us", "seller" or "OnePlus" are references to Reflection Investment BV, trading as OnePlus and registered in the Netherlands under Chamber of Commerce number 64193756 and located at Luna Arena, Herikerbergweg 238, 1101 CM Amsterdam.


    However, cross checking this company with the registration at the Chamber of Commerce gave me an different address.

    Screenshot_20210515-134647.png

    So, that’s already a kind of weird, non-matching addresses. Knowing The Netherlands are a tax paradise for foreign companies and a lot of off shore companies have settled here, this would probably be applicable here but that’s not the point. I think, to find such a mistake in the first few paragraphs isn’t a good sign but maybe it’s legal as the address is also used for returns.


    Now in The Netherlands, the seller has to identify himself including all contact details, so that’s covered in the Dutch Term of Sales……..somehow.


    So onto the next section which is of interest to me, which laws are applicable in case anything arises?


    19.6 Governing Law . Contracts for the purchase of Products through our website and all disputes or claims arising out of or in connection with the Products or their subject matter or formation (including non-contractual disputes or claims) are governed by Dutch law. All disputes or claims arising out of or in connection with such contracts or their formation (including non-contractual disputes or claims) fall under the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of the Netherlands.


    So Dutch laws are applicable, which is a good thing. So concluding, the Dutch Terms of Sales, as far as the parts I’m interested in look OK.


    On to the next, as I’m living close to the Belgium border and real estate is cheap, I might consider moving there but what happens if I want to buy a OnePlus device in Belgium? Let’s see


    So OnePlus in the Belgium terms of sales is mentioned as follows:


    1.3 References in these Terms of Sale to "we", "our", "us", "seller" or "OnePlus" mean OnePlus.


    OnePlus??????? Who are they, where are they situated, who am I dealing with, where does the money go, who is this OnePlus I’m closing a contract with???? I don’t know, there is no reference to where they are situated. Now I’m not sure if this legal in Belgium or not, I’m sure some lawyers, or whoever, has checked this but me as a customer would like to know who I’m dealing with.


    On to the next part, which law is applicable in The Terms of Sales in Belgium (and here is another copy/paste):


    19.6 Governing Law. Contracts to purchase Products through our website and any disputes or claims arising out of or in connection with them or their subject matter or formation (including non-contractual disputes or claims) are governed by English law. All disputes or claims arising out of or in connection with such contracts or the formation thereof (including non-contractual disputes or claims) are subject to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of England and Wales.


    Nice, so I live in Belgium, probably my money goes to Hong Kong and the laws of England and Wales are applicable???????? How’s that for being part of the EU?

    Edit (May 16th, 2021): October 2020, the money went to London if ordered in Belgium

    Also checked the German Terms of sales, they deal with Reflection B.V. in the Netherlands and the German laws are applicable. The French Terms of Sales state, like the Ones for Belgium, OnePlus is the seller, the applicable law is French and there is a section added with a link is given to complain with the European commission and some more, probably specific French legally required information.


    I don’t know if all is conform regional laws or not but reading these Term of Sales, it seems all a bit “messy” and probably there is more inconsistency on The Terms for other countries and these are just the paragraphs I have checked


    @dsmonteiro, sorry I tag you again but you’re about the only one that answers, could you shed a light on this?

    TL;DR, Term of Sales look a bit messy to me for different EU countries


    Edit: oh and that Clipt app works nice.😀👍
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2021

    #1
    the_o2, captsakis, Dresa91 and 13 others like this.
  2. McJader
    Marshmallow May 15, 2021

    McJader , May 15, 2021 :
    I imagine not many people (read: nobody) actually read through the ToS when buying a new phone, or accessory or such. :rolleyes:
    This was difficult to read through, but I managed to understand your point:p
    Let's wait for an answer
     

    #2
  3. rhyd1am
    KitKat May 15, 2021

    rhyd1am , May 15, 2021 :
    Worth noting too that since the United Kingdom is no longer a member of the EU, does that mean that the laws for England and Wales are no longer applicable in Belgium's case?
     

    #3
    Dresa91, otto2, Tokolozi and 3 others like this.
  4. Bobbie63
    Marshmallow May 15, 2021

    Bobbie63 , May 15, 2021 :
    I know but sometimes it's better to read them, especially when you want to know who you are dealing with. Like my post stated, the Dutch seems pretty OK but as I checked others, I found some weird stuff and I'm sure, someone with knowledge will find more. Normally, as a private person, I check them if I'm not sure about whom I dealing with.
     

    #4
    Shailender Sharma and McJader like this.
  5. Bobbie63
    Marshmallow May 15, 2021

    Bobbie63 , May 15, 2021 :
    I don't know, I don't even know who we are dealing with in some countries. Like I said it's at least a bit strange that the money goes to Hong Kong (I guess) and laws of Wales and England are applicable when you live in Belgium or Portugal. :confused:

    It might be possible to put in the laws of any country for all I know.
     

    #5
  6. McJader
    Marshmallow May 15, 2021

    McJader , May 15, 2021 :
    Yep, thanks for the thread
     

    #6
  7. rhyd1am
    KitKat May 15, 2021

    rhyd1am , May 15, 2021 :
    I like to think that I'm reasonably intelligent and I'm pretty good at reading terms etc before committing to anything, but as you say this all seems far more complicated for most consumers...... At least in my case it is.

    Look forward to reading any thoughts from others, especially someone who might actually understand why this is the way it is in some EU countries.
     

    #7
  8. Bobbie63
    Marshmallow May 15, 2021

    Bobbie63 , May 15, 2021 :
    I know the Dutch terms look pretty complete and covered all the basics in a correct way (apart from the address). Somehow I have the idea there is a lot of copy/paste and stuff from the past still left in the text. It doesn’t mind on a legal base as I know there is a bare minimum of rights and obligations even if they’re not mentioned but as a customer, the first thing I’d like to know is who am I dealing with?
     

    #8
  9. Shailender Sharma
    Marshmallow May 15, 2021

    Shailender Sharma , May 15, 2021 :
    You are a warrior @Bobbie63, you didn't forget that Portuguese customer warning thread. :)

    So, if OnePlus is going to sue you in Belgium. You have to hire a lawyer in the courts of England and Wales. :D

    Pleasantries apart, thanks for digging the relevant information for this thread. If we are going to dig deeper, have to find the money trail. In the end, it's all due to some tax holiday in one country kind of thing.

    Interesting thread indeed.
     

    #9
    Dresa91, Bobbie63 and McJader like this.
  10. Bobbie63
    Marshmallow May 15, 2021

    Bobbie63 , May 15, 2021 :
    That money trail would be interesting, although not relevant to this thread but on the address from the Dutch chamber of commerce, there's 218 different companies registered. (it's a basement of some house) :rolleyes:
     

    #10
    Dresa91, otto2, Tokolozi and 3 others like this.
  11. G_plusone
    Nougat May 15, 2021

    G_plusone , May 15, 2021 :
    Maybe the Belgium one has leftover stuff from pre Brexit time?
    They never bothered to change it 😛
     

    #11
  12. Bobbie63
    Marshmallow May 15, 2021

    Bobbie63 , May 15, 2021 :
    Guess the two Belgium OnePlus owners here bought their device retail. Didn’t you @Aaron2017 and @Tokolozi ?:rolleyes:

    so they didn’t bother to change the terms of sales.
     

    #12
  13. Tokolozi
    Most Original Avatar May 15, 2021

    Tokolozi , May 15, 2021 :
    Yup the 8T was just bought retail :)
     

    #13
    Dresa91, otto2, Aaron2017 and 2 others like this.
  14. Aaron2017
    KitKat May 15, 2021

    Aaron2017 , May 15, 2021 :
    Damn, here i was thinking i did a pretty good job at hiding where i'm from.😉 Yes, also bought it retail, checked my bank transcripts and the money went to London. Checked the terms too, last edited juli 2019.
    1621097015531.jpg



    Nice thread btw, very interesting but also, after reading it, kinda frightening too with all the confusion.
     

    #14
  15. Bobbie63
    Marshmallow May 15, 2021

    Bobbie63 , May 15, 2021 :
    I know, I got totally confused, good to know your money went to London although I don’t know why London. I mean where does it state your dealing with “something OnePlus in London”. But the fact laws from Wales and England makes that part correct again.

    I guess you bought your device after brexit? If it would have been before, it could be understandable. However from what I understood, in Portugal, the money is going to Hong Kong, which and the jurisdiction is the laws of England and Wales.:confused:
     

    #15
  16. Dresa91
    User of the Year 2016; Most Active User 2020 May 15, 2021

    Dresa91 , May 15, 2021 :
    Nice work Sherlock:)
    upload_2021-5-15_19-10-58.gif
     

    #16
  17. Bobbie63
    Marshmallow May 15, 2021

    Bobbie63 , May 15, 2021 :

    upload_2021-5-15_19-24-42.gif
     

    #17
  18. Aaron2017
    KitKat May 15, 2021

    Aaron2017 , May 15, 2021 :
    The first one i bought in November 2019 and the second one October 2020, so before the official brexit i think? I stopped following those developments after a while, talk about confusion.
     

    #18
  19. Aaron2017
    KitKat May 15, 2021


    #19
  20. Bobbie63
    Marshmallow May 15, 2021

    Bobbie63 , May 15, 2021 :
    The second one was after Brexit, that was I think as per February 1st, 2020.
     

    #20
    Dresa91, rhyd1am and Aaron2017 like this.